While some performance cars (think Mustang, Camaro or 370Z) use a limited slip differential to help put the power to the ground instead of just spinning your wheels, most cars (including the LEAF) use a regular open (or non-limited slip) differential (wiki article found here). Your email address will not be published. That old Polo, after all, took about twice as long to reach 100km/h, and increasing the engine size by about 15% isnt going to suddenly make it stay neck-and-neck. Isnt it amazing what knowing a few facts can do?! I have gotten our 2013 Leaf up to 94 quite easily. So how the heck does it manage it, when the effective gearing from 0 to 100km/h is more or less equivalent to having that larger engine but starting and staying in 2nd, and its got such a relatively heavy body to drag along? Sorry about the delay in approving your comments. Thanks Dont let the games manufacturers play with them lead you astray . Not the sort of car that most americans would consider spending over $20,000 on. Obviously 837 vs ~810 is a good 3.3% which allowing for some rounding error is equal to the quoted 3.2% slippage. Congratulations! Through our experiences hopefully others will find that an EV is not only viable, but a preference for them.

Yes, it's all the SAME. Simple do the math! The torque curves are totally different. We are destroying life on earth as we know it by burning fossil fuels this is one step you can personally take in the other direction. Do you mean locked rotor current? I am excited to see these Babies rolling around Canada, and Charge Stations Emerging.. Keep them coming Nissan, You are Top Notch for bringing these out!! Thanks again. But if the final stop wasnt available we would have had to find a slow-charge, and come back for the car the next day). Some other numbers released: curb weight 1,525kg (3,355 pounds) minimum 1,595kg (3,509 pounds) maximum. No obnoxious fumes. The difference is that with an open differential, its primary job is to allow one tire to rotate faster than the other to corner smoothly and not break anything. No oil dripping in your carport or on the roads. This is what will make cars such as the plug-in Prius hybrid and Chevy Volt more attractive to those interested in going electric, but needing a greater range than that currently offered by the LEAF. My whole goal is to get good info out in the world about the LEAF and EVs in order to help encourage their adoption. And of course someone planning a conversion and choosing a motor doesn't have the motor yet to measure. The idea of an 80% charge is to extend the battery life. If you do wish to go full electric and wish to achieve that range, you can look into the Tesla Model S sedan. But now thinking, since when do manufactures do torque ratings from the wheel. We bought it in Alabama, and had a 140mi drive back home. Good question. The warranty figures they will lose less than 4 bars over 10 years.

Comparing it to the Micra, we can basically just divide by 1.55 to put the Leaf on an equal power to weight basis, wed have to detune whichever engine was in the city car to just 69hp. Living LEAF, we replied to your comment in another post, Infiniti unveils LEAF based EV Living LEAF, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential, Leaf UpdateI Cannot Lie | Sustainable Us, Gas price goes up faster than electricity rates, Websites and Phone Apps to locate EV charging stations. I can only presume the secret is in how it sustains those outputs in such a rock solid way. To actually have a fighting chance, wed have to bore it out a bit though only to about 1300cc. We still have all 12 bars. I instrumented my 2012 LEAF with a racelogic GPS unit (Very Accurate). As you say, we needed to start down the road to electric cars somewhere Nissan has done exactly that. Actually, some EV manufacturers have been quoting torque at the wheels, and it makes perfect sense because it doesn't matter what the motor torque is, only the end result at the wheels. This is why you feel no shifting and no hesitation upon acceleration. Typical practice on compact cars is to provide vented front rotors and solid rear rotors. I agree that the devil is in the details, area under the curve is more important than peak torque and torque at the wheels, etc, HOWEVER, until I can go hop on Google and find out how much torque at the wheels a 1978 Dodge Dart has, it's not helpful to me. But it's not misleading - that is the torque where it matters. It appeared that the battery issue was related to ambient heat as all of the affected cars were in hot climates like Arizona. (two, 30min, each stop. Since the electric motor revs to over 10,000 rpm, there needs to be only one gear which is adequate to take the LEAF from zero to over 90 miles per hour. Ken Welcome to Living LEAF. Come up with 1308.94? For the Hummer, I'd guess to get >10k ft-lbs. Thanks for the great information about the top speed of the Leaf and why. Suddenly everything makes sense again, Weird how numbers can play tricks on you, isnt it. An L2, and an L3). Ah, never knew about the tyre slippage thing. But when it really comes down to it, does it matter to the majority of LEAF owners how fast their car can go? and the stated LRR tyre slippage. I found the reason for the discrepancy.

We likely will not see 300 mile range anytime soon from any pure battery electric vehicles carrying a LEAF price tag. (there are many dozens of charging stations in the Metro area. They are generally calibrated to be most accurate at typical highway speeds. Whereas the electric car applies maximum torque to the drivetrain within a split second of the pedal being floored, keeps it applied (or at least as much as the traction control meters out) to about 25mph, then backs it off gradually and smoothly in order to keep the power output steady at the maximum allowed. In your case, it sounds like you could easily get by charging to 80 percent if you have that ability. You might find it useful to plug in every night, just to cover any unexpected driving needs. Still a weak autonomy though.Ill buy an electric car when the 500 Km autonomy range will be a reality. Obviously, 207 lbft being brought to bear in 2nd gear still isnt anything to sniff at (I would happily start in 2nd all day long in my old TDi with about 150lbft), but it does reduce the Wheel Torque bragging rights vs a normal car. (Nissans likely choice for a car of the Leafs size would be their 1500cc version of the same engines). My current ICE vehicles a 1996 miata 22mpg but only 87 octane. I can just leave the leaf at home and pick up my ice for further driving. Of course torque can be measured, and in any motor and controller system suitable for an EV the maximum torque will be at zero speed ("locked rotor"), but individuals building EVs are rarely equipped to measure torque. As for the torque and power figures, as people often get themselves in a tizz about them and dont really understand how they relate to real-world performance (including such shiners as suggesting an EV would go quicker if you added a gearbox to keep the motor rpm in the middle of the max torque region, and thus way below the max power) : We need to relate it to the weight, and to the gearing. then i will get about 35 MPG on an the worst setup and thats not too bad for once in a while and still better MPG then most cars out today. I can even charge it at School as they will be happy to help, this will extend my leaf driving even further. This is the case for Ni-Cad cells that can develop a memory effect. A forum community dedicated to DIY electric car owners and enthusiasts. After seeing how small the battery pack is in the traveling demonstration currently on tour, it seems that nissan couldve doubled up on the cells; and gave america a 200 mile range vehicle that would be a truly reasonable choice (if done with a price of around $30,000). the first one to have a practical ev that americans will start purchasing in mass. So for 2013, Nissan improved the battery to better withstand heat. Hi Gerald Welcome to Living LEAF. If you live in Seattle like we do, the extra benefit is that the electricity we use is clean energy. Nissan of course cant really predict how slippy any tyre the owners may install will be, or the roads they drive on, or how chunky the tread, or indeed if they may not be able to get hold of (or afford, or like) the exact specified size and so fit something with a slightly larger rolling circumference and may get in trouble if the speedometer under-reads and causes an accident or a prosecution so they are sort of obligated, even with modern super-accurate digital speed recording and readout, to assume no slip at all (which causes up to 5% over-reading, or maybe just 3%) and maximum typical tread depth (another 1% or so), and then to build in at least an extra 1 or 2% (so that there is, say, an extra 1mph safety margin around 50mph, or at least 1km/h at 100k) just in case of any other unpredictable factors. They also made other improvements to battery life as well so now, Im not sure that the 80% charge is really required anymore. Sarath Welcome to Living LEAF. I hear that the gear ratio of the gear box is 8:1, I found for that tire size is will rotated 811.1 rev/mile, if the speed 60 mile/hr then the motor speed is 8X60X811.1/60min= 6488.8 RPM. I have been using the Leaf for over One year now charging at 100 p.c every time I come back home even though the charge level indicates 90 p c. Idonot run more than 60 km a day.Mostly short runs. Rides like a skateboard, but I knew it was not a Cadillac, and for short tripsworks for me. The power:weight, torque:gearing and wheel-torque:weight figures and theory are rather in conflict with the observed acceleration.

The point of an EV is not matching an original ICE. We have had our Leaf 7 months now (previously it was a leased unit) and always charged to 100%. A different electric motor is used on the 2013 and later models with slightly revised specifications. Pingback: Audi joins the EV train Living LEAF, Pingback: Infiniti unveils LEAF based EV Living LEAF. Or, even if your commute is a little longer, you might be able to charge up at work or nearby. Excellent Information.. Teslas first vehicles produced will be the top of the line Signature model, which will require a premium over the standard $70,000 300 mile model. Trying to figure out which motor will be a good fit for which older car, I don't have access to random torque numbers someone determined that varies with how much air in the tires, I want to be able to go "Oh, this GMC Truck (using my conversion for example) came with a 248ci 6 cylinder that made 110hp and 190 lb/ft of torque (NOT at the tires). So at maximum motor RPM, we are traveling at 1.56 times 60 MPH, or 93.8 MPH. When tire manufacturers report revolutions per mile in the specs, depending on the tire, a 3-5% slippage factor is applied. 87 mile range is just too limiting to make this useful as a viable transportation option, unless its only a spare car for local errands. The Leaf charger is designed to cut off before damaging the battery). Best of luck. Thanks for your feedback on your first week in the car. Take off 3.2% and that could be as little as 145.2 km/h or 90.2mph. A savings of 60 percent to 70 percent is not uncommon due to the efficiency of an electric motor over a gasoline engine and the lower cost of electricity compared to gasoline. Depending on the model year, it can be anywhere from the high 100s to over 300 ft-lbs. Hi Ernie, Pl advice me on my previous comment. For this reason, HP or kW are really the ideal measure of how powerful an engine or motor is since they take into account both torque and rotational speed. Its worth a bit of inconvenience. I am Officially the First Leaf owner in New york. (OK, Id be doing 80, with traffic, in the other car.). The benefits of the LEAF are endless, starting with the most important: ZERO emissions. The torque and power at the wheels therefore is pretty sinusoidal and stepped at the same time, with an occasional complete zero-out, and the potential maximum not being exerted for more than a small percentage of the entire process. No temporary peaks. Using your circumference number results in a top speed of 96.8 vs. my calculated 93.8. We would love to hear from you with additional comments as you experience your new LEAF. The LEAF is either in gear, or its not. That makes sense. Why is this important? And thank you for your comment. JavaScript is disabled. you will soon find that you think of it as your FIRST car. Used the Nissan, and Chev dealership (free) quick charge a few timeseasy-peasywalk across street for lunch or dinnergood to go! Nice to see on the LEAF. The max RPMs are also different by as much as 4:1. Elroy Welcome to Living LEAF. Or you can set up a solar panel just for charging your car. If you said "yes, of course, that's a lot" would it matter if that was only available up to 100 rpm and the motor couldn't turn more than 500 rpm? Its clear that youve spent some time looking at these issues. Pingback: Where would we be without the internet? After down payment leased for $225 per month. Recently, the good folks inNissans European Newsroom provided us with some additional technical specifications for the LEAF that had not been previously released. Theres a slight tail-off towards max speed due to internal motor friction, but for all intents and purposes the torque graph is a straight line followed by a parabolic fall-off, and the power graph is a straight diagonal line from the origin to the crossover point, and a flat line after that. For this Ill compare to a couple of particular other vehicle models, Nissans own Micra (as I happen to own one ;), with a choice of two very modern engines both 1200cc, one naturally aspirated (81 lbft @ 4000rpm, 80hp @ 6000rpm), the other lightly supercharged (108 lbft @ 4400rpm, 98hp @ 5600rpm) and an old VW Polo (again, something I owned; 1043cc, 55 lbft @ 2800, 45hp @ 5200, plus a few other engines generally with about the same specific output but varying in capacity and some with slightly altered torque vs power biases) with a fairly stoneage engine that can act as a base for larger, lower tune lumps running on poorer fuel. Only the early models had the feature to charge to 80 percent. What pioneers! So I feel if the leaf is your second car there is plenty of room for a leaf as your second car. The number you find on google is before the reduction. We are pleased to hear about your experience, as it will help others that may be in a similar situation. +1 to that Ernie. At age 67, and Leaf owner of 3 months, this is my 26th car in my lifetime, and by FAR my favorite so far!

I figured there was some reason for the difference, but I wasnt quite sure why. The variance is likely due to the trim level and associated equipment differences. My wife loves the fact that she doesnt have to go to the gas station anymore also. Since 2013 model year it only offers the 100 percent option. A limited slip differential will sense the spinning wheel in a high powered car if excess power is applied too quickly and literally limit slip of the spinning wheel and send that power to the wheel that has traction. Like you said torque alone is a poor number to compare between vehicles, ESPECIALLY when taken at the wheels. I was surprised that the top speed was only 95 mph. Which I think covers all the variation weve seen reported (from a lower maximum of 91.7mph or 147.5km/h to about 95mph 153km/h). If you're using the original transmission, there's certainly some validity in that.. although you don't have to use the same gear at the same road speed, so it's not really a direct comparison. Multiply engine torque by transmission and final drive gear ratios, and you have it. Others will find it helpful. Well see. Thus 0.995 tonnes with 80hp was bang on. Thanks for the idea! Since it was a lease, I expect the previous owner also charged to 100% (no incentive to save bars if you are going to drop the car after the lease period) so thats 4 years at 100%. So it all works out quite neatly really, despite looking a bit puzzling to start with. But you can, so it is. You're in no position to preach or argue with some of the world class grey matter on this forum. My calculations, however, show that the circumference for that tire size is 78.16 inches divided into a 63,360 inches/mile yielding 811 revolutions which gives a factor of 1.61 with a theoretical top speed of 97MPH. Would 1,000 lb-ft of torque be good? Well i would say more but I have to go to work in my leaf. Eric, welcome to Living LEAF. Also, some individuals are fortunate enough to work at a company like Qualcomm, Google, or many others, that offer employees the ability to charge their LEAF at work. Still, we needed to start down the road to electric cars somewhere, and nissan is to be congratulated for being the first horse out of the gate. But, we also need to add a correction factor for the weight, as this thing is more than a tonne and a half (and the heaviest thing Ive yet owned, which coincidentally enough had a 106hp engine, was under 1.2 tonnes). You're awfully confused, not having any knowledge, but arguing nonetheless. I bought the car New and have driven it from 2004 to the present yes that is why i bought a leaf. But small and with very limited range. I dont know what year LEAF you have. So the quoted figures, after the above serial dividing-down, can then be multiplied by probably 1.3x or more so, a good 1.6 litres or so even for that small equivalent VW engine we arrived at. Or in other words, trying to achieve that particular milestone top speed (1.5x the Japanese national limit, btw) whilst JUST keeping the motor under 10,000rpm.

So its still a 90mph class car, if you round off to the nearest mph, even though the road speed is more than 4% below the theoretical ideal, and the speedometer might be overreading by more than 6%, Down a big hill, you might be able to push it far enough to nudge that motor maximum (presumably the power ebbs off to zero between 9990 and 10390 or indeed 10400, as even an unloaded motor requires a little power in order to keep turning and then aggressively applies more and more braking / reverse thrust up to the full 107hp as it approaches 10500rpm, which may be the actual breakdown speed) which would be a driveshaft speed of ~97mph, a real road speed of maybe 150km/h at last, and a maxed out speedometer reading of 99mph (or 159~160km/h), And thus it can cover you for legal driving in basically any current posted speed limit in the world (highest I know of are 85mph in or at least proposed for Texas, 140km/h in Poland and Dubai? In this case adding 3.2% to my calculated 811 RPM yeilds 837 as reported for the Bridgestone Ecopia which is a more energy efficient low resistance to roll tire. Which, all in all, is pretty strange. I am 24 miles from manhatten and 24 miles from most parts of Long island like the school i plan on going to SunyFarming dale and then NYIT which currently has a EV Solar charging station. Come join the discussion about electric vehicle conversions, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Perhaps well put that on our agenda. My final plan is to get a Range extender trailer which i can use to say go to Florida or Canda in the car as opposed to taking my Maxima. I believe during the Hummer EV reveal they said that it would be capable of 10,000 ft-lbs. For those of you with range anxiety Note that most people do not drive more than 30-50 miles in a day. No burning of fossil fuel. So this Hyper 9 HV will be a good fit because it's around 140hp equivalent and 170 lb/ft of torque.". I think it also has the option to charge to 80%. I also own a 2003 maxima with 187,000 miles on it with about 16 mpg on 93 octane. You can take the results and multiply by your own comparison cars weight (and gearing) to get similar outcomes. jondoe88 Welcome to Living LEAF. and 150km/h *somewhere* I cant exactly remember, which may also have been merely a proposal) with just a little in reserve if needed for some reason or if youre out on the Autobahn Torque-wise, were looking at 120-134 lbft for that notional second gear so a little larger than the engines conceived of above, so still perfectly decent in that small wedge where you could consider it more the 2nd gear torque zone than 1st but for first, its a rather more lacklustre 67 to 74 lbft, again being embarrassed in the starting-oomph stakes by the punchier ICEs (equivalent capacities of 744 thru 1096cc); recalculating for the VW, its 102-114 lbft for 2nd (so, still needing a roughly 2L lump to provide it at that S.O. Across the whole acceleration from rest to highway speed, your ICE might be lucky to claim an average output of 75% of its maximum potential (and even if it has a CVT, thats unlikely to be over 85-90% because of the extra transmission drag they represent despite the stepless ratio change), whereas the electric has 100% all the way. Thanks for your contribution to the conversation. Hey, We will have to charge it Sunday night, and Wednesday, for work. The gearing, however, is more like that of a medium-long 2nd gear 9.32 mph/1000, fairly close to the Micras 2nd and is only that high because of the large wheels, the actual reduction being more like that usually seen in a medium-short 2nd gear; indeed, the total drive ratio is quite close to that of the Polos actual 2nd 1.958 for the gear itself, and a 4.063 differential. The fact of the matter is, no one can produce that car currently. For those batteries, it was best to draw down the power to near zero, then fill them up full. Other cars use things like a limited slip differential (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-slip_differential). This isn't done with conventional vehicles because it would be a different value in every gear ratio of the transmission; however, most EVs have only a fixed gear ratio so this isn't a problem. The LEAF is perfect for running errands, getting your kids to school, short commutes, etc. Thank you so much for your contribution to the discussion. Lithium batteries, thankfully, do not suffer from this effect so keeping them topped up should not be an issue (note: some devices, like phones, might lose capacity when overcharged. . I would have expected a loss of a bar by now if the 4 bars/10 year rule still applied. Divide 10,390 by 7.9377. Nissan started, hopefully they keep up with the technology and advancements while others (like VW Now looking to do a full EV Golf) might leave NISSAN in the dust. Varun Welcome to Living LEAF. Go ahead well wait. I did not know that. And most likely, you have heard by now that LEAF does not use a conventional automatic or manual transmission. Even though the car cant make it around the globe in one charge, the fact this car is ground breaking technology. We think that we recall reading that the fastest the LEAF has traveled (at least in road tests that we have seen) has been 94 MPH or 95 MPH, so these calculations are probably fairly accurate. no idling. Sarath. But it may not help either. The single fixed gear is within less than 1/10th of a percent of 15km/h per 1000rpm (at least theoretically, not counting slippage etc), so we may as well use that IE those motor RPM work out to road speeds of 40.5 and 45 km/h, or about 25 and 28mph, roughly where peak power would come in with a typical gasoline ICE in 1st gear. quiet, smooth, gliding ride. John, welcome to Living LEAF. The max torque is 207 lbft in the original and 187 lbft in the retuned version (still enough to squirrel the tyres), so that max power crossover point is reached at ~2700 and ~3000 rpm respectively. For example i go to car meets in Long island but i drop my mom to work very often in Astoria, Queens. You are almost right. I hope that answered your question. Anywaysit seems to me that the first manufacturer to produce THAT vehicle is the one who will be the winner, i.e. I live in the border of queens and long island. Pl advise whether I should reduce the level to 80 p c and continue my charging habit after every journey. The Model S is slated to be available next year and will offer the 300 mile range that you seek. In daily driving, most will rarely, if ever, exceed 80 miles per hour. Appreciate it. Laurie Welcome to Living LEAF. at the wheels they're using something in the ballpark of a 15:1 reduction. , Pingback: It was one year ago today Living LEAF. I'm not sure. i currently live in New hyde park and because i couldnt wait to order one i purchased one from Portland and it will be shipping in 2 to 3 days finally waited over 13 days for delivery due to xmas and new years. But if the electric motor is turning 10,390 RPM, and the tires are turning at 1308.94 RPM, how fast are we going? [UPDATE] This article was written in 2010 and applies to the 2011 and 2012 models of the Nissan LEAF. We can already see that the lower torque model is comparable at the wheels to the supercharged Micra, for a small window, though once the Leaf gets into the mid 20s mph the ICE is outgunned and never has a chance to regain the upper hand. All of my calculations are included in the article.The difference between our top speed is the revolutions per mile. For instance, we now know that the AC synchronous motor can turn a maximum of 10,390 revolutions per minute (RPM).

Nissan has used it elsewhere since the early 90s. Very interesting. Here at Living LEAF were car geeks what can we say? With these givens, at 60 miles per hour these tires will turn 837 RPM. I used 837 (as indicated in the link to Tirerack.com (Tire Rack tire size info)). (I also did some mathing with the power and torque vs normal cars, but Ive got something I need to go do AFK first, so there now follows a natural breakpoint.). Rear end ratios vary, but that's easily determined with a floor jack, jackstands, and keys to the car. So what good does that do anyone? Five to ten years from now? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks for posting. Heres a great page of articles on the How Stuff Works website (found here) that explain how they work. Plug it in at night and go during the day. We heard from some other sources as much as 18,000 RPM, but thought that might be on the high side. And.I can start out in high gear, without shifting. I think it's misleading in the context of other vehicles, specifically ICE cars. Any vehicle speedometer will be off at high speeds. Living LEAF.

1308.94 RPM divided by 837 RPM equals 1.56. Ask questions, then shutup and listenand learn. So, we have a 1550kg vehicle, with 107hp available from more or less the top of the basically flat peak torque band (which goes down very nearly to 0 rpm), thanks to the main thing governing both of those figures being not their electromagnetic characteristics or the flamefront physics of hydrocarbon combustion, but how much voltage the battery and controller can provide (and the motor withstand) along with how much force the shafts and transmission can cope with, in the case of torque, along with how much current (and thus total power, at max volts) the system can flow for the remainder. Charging to 80% puts less strain on the battery and may allow the battery to maintain all 12 bars for longer. Thought a electric motor could be measured, locked rotor torque that is how I used to measure it Ivan's Garage 1999 Electric Sonoma Pickup, I agree, except that torque is valid for comparison, I disagree, because from a conversion standpoint, I want the numbers to be as apples to apples as possible. This is an excellent city car. Venting the brakes at both ends of the car offers several advantages cooler brake operation, longer component life, improved performance, along with potentially less maintenance. ), but just 57 to 63 for first, topping out at an equivalent of 1199cc even with that primitive motor. Ernie, I assume that you are using some other reduction gearing, instead, such as a conventional final drive unit (differential with ring and pinion gears). In over 6 months we have not yet personally explored the top speed of our LEAF. Hi Jonathan Welcome to Living LEAF. I still have a NGV for longer trips, but in 3 months have put 3000 miles on the Leaf, and 250 on my NGV. Everything worked out, and we made it home with 20 miles left. Tahrey Welcome to Living LEAF. There were a whole raft of rival cars I struck off my list when I was shopping this time round because I didnt want anything under 70hp (and 70hp per tonne, additionally), or 75 if I could help it, because they would just be too slow a decade and a half of driving experience has show this is about what you need for comfortable performance (as opposed to challenging below it, or entertaining above it).

I am looking to use a Nissan Leaf motor for my swap. One other little bit that we picked up both front and rear brake rotors are ventilated.